00:00:00.01 iandawsonmackay I cannot thank you enough for coming on. it's It's a joy to have somebody who I've followed for so long on social media. yeah And you're like we were saying before we started, I learned so much by watching your Instagram videos. But for those who maybe don't recognize the name, how would you describe who the badass Rosie Miller is? 00:00:18.83 Rosie Oh gosh, I have to describe myself. um Well, you know, I think I'm just someone who really values learning. And it's interesting because even though my jujitsu Instagram page really focuses on jujitsu, I have actually gotten feedback from people who don't even train jujitsu. 00:00:38.33 Rosie um who say that they're just learning how to learn or some of the lessons that I share about jujitsu help them in life too. So I'm not exactly sure how I would describe myself other than someone who just really likes sharing my life experience and a lot of that is learned through training jujitsu. So whether it's directly related to you know something on the mat or just in life in general, I'm just a curious person who loves learning and loves sharing all of that. 00:01:07.35 iandawsonmackay I love it because you've just got this unique kind of coaching style that your videos are such high quality, but you've got such a fun and friendly way of providing that you just can't help but learn when you show a technique in that. But you went from doing English with a focus on poetry to dancing then to boxing to jiu-jitsu. You've talked about having older brothers and being a tomboy when you were younger. Was this the path you were always destined to go on, do you think? 00:01:37.18 Rosie You know, in a way, I think it was. um So, I was raised in the south in Tallahassee, Florida, in a very kind of traditional town. Now, my family is not very traditional at all. We kind of stuck out like a sore thumb in this in this city. um I grew up in a neighborhood called Rose Hill, and we would joke and call ourselves the Rose Hillbillies because we just didn't quite fit in the neighborhood. um And my family is just very eclectic, multicultural. And my family always really encouraged us to kind of find our own way, find our own identity, explore and stay curious. And so I think as you know a young girl growing up in kind of this traditional town, because my parents encouraged me to explore, I wasn't afraid of kind of being interested in things that 00:02:29.69 Rosie other girls my age weren't really interested in. So I grew up as a competitive dancer from the time I was very, very young. But I always had this passionate interest for combat sports, for it four kind of kung fu movies, for action movies. 00:02:45.32 iandawsonmackay Okay. 00:02:45.41 Rosie And I didn't pursue it until I was much older, but it was always in me. It had always been something I was fascinated by. 00:02:54.19 iandawsonmackay So did you get any pushback? Because I know in traditional circles, girls are flimsy, where men or men do all these kind of, you know, and it's that silly attitude that still prevail in a lot of sports now. Did you have any kind of fight from your parents, from locals to kind of say, no, no, you stick to dancing instead of taking on combat sports? Or was it just rough and tumble like your brothers? I want to do that. And I want to see and for fulfill what I see on the screen. 00:03:23.40 Rosie Um, no pushback from my family. Absolutely none. They were not surprised at all when I expressed my interest in combat sports. 00:03:26.40 iandawsonmackay Love it. 00:03:30.97 Rosie Um, growing up, my parents would even joke and say, um, you know, we're very like, we want to make sure our boys are okay, but we know Rose is going to take care of herself. She'll be fine. Um, cause I think I was just always a little bit feisty. 00:03:42.97 Rosie I, you know, I had an attitude for sure growing up, i I was not afraid to speak my mind. So I was always a little bit. Um, I was very assertive and I think my, my mom really appreciated that about me, but I think it also kind of scared her a little bit. Um, so no surprise for my parents, no pushback from my parents, uh, maybe a little bit from like the older generations in my family, uh, and, and certainly from people. 00:04:09.56 Rosie who didn't know me very well, I would get comments about, you know, not ruining a pretty face and and stuff like that. And I just never really got into it. I never really took it too seriously. um I think I was just always so interested in whatever it was I was interested in. So the outside noise didn't really mean that much to me, I guess. I never really took it seriously. 00:04:34.58 iandawsonmackay It's sad, isn't it, in this day and age where girls are viewed by their looks, where guys are viewed by their abilities. And even now, we're so far removed from a lot of these ridiculously stupid viewpoints, and we're still ruled by a lot of these. And it's sad that girls don't get that opportunity. And that's why I think it's so good for you as a role model to be showing people by coaching, by introducing them into this amazing sport. 00:05:01.20 iandawsonmackay I love how they call it the gentle art and you get your arse kicked for most of the training session, but you did the initial jump from dancing to boxing. 00:05:04.64 Rosie Yeah. 00:05:09.91 iandawsonmackay And I heard you talking in an interview about how it helped your foot work and, you know, your rhythm and stuff like that. But you took about time to go from boxing to jiu-jitsu. What was the sort of hold up at that point, that mental block? 00:05:22.76 iandawsonmackay Because I had it myself over analyzing, self-sabotaging, you name it. Did you know what it was that was holding you back at that point? 00:05:31.94 Rosie Yeah, so i I think at the time, I wasn't really aware, but in hindsight, I think it makes a lot of sense to me. So a lot of, I'd always been very athletic my whole life or, you know, involved in extracurricular activities. um And so dancing was very natural to me. I didn't remember but being bad at dance. I didn't remember having to learn dance. I didn't remember being uncoordinated. And so when I started boxing, that was really the first time I remembered being bad at something. 00:06:00.57 Rosie and having to learn something from scratch. I think maybe a lot of kids have this experience in middle school, maybe, or elementary school, where they remember getting introduced to something. But i I've been dancing for as long as I can remember. I don't remember a time without dance. And so I don't remember that initial learning phase. um And so starting boxing was a very new experience for me, not just because I was pursuing a combat sport, but because I was truly a beginner at something for the first time that I could really remember and appreciate. And it was scary for me. And I had to learn how to be bad at something. I had to learn how to be a beginner. I had to learn how to not be the expert. And it was such a profound and necessary experience. 00:06:47.16 Rosie And I think it held me back from taking all a lot of the risks I wanted to take in boxing. um I didn't compete at the level that maybe I might have had a slight urge to do more than just smokers and like little local matches, but I never pursued that I think because of fear. 00:07:06.53 Rosie Um, and then when I was thinking about getting started in jujitsu, I remember, you know, it was mostly men training jujitsu at the time. I did have really powerful role models in mixed martial arts, like Gina Carano, Ronda Rousey, they were all coming up in women's mixed martial arts was really gaining popularity. um So I did have some good examples of women who were doing it at a high level, but I was still scared to be new at something again. um i was Like I said, I was not really good at being bad at things. It was a very humbling experience. um And so in hindsight, I think that's really kind of what held me back is I didn't want to have to go through that learning curve, but im 00:07:48.36 Rosie So glad I did, and I truly feel like Jujitsu satisfies something in me that boxing never did. And having my experience with boxing and feeling like I didn't really take the risks I wanted to take, it really prepared me and helped me go into Jujitsu with a much better mindset. 00:08:09.41 Rosie um I was not expecting really to master it easily or quickly. um And I think I learned it even much slower than I realized. And I think maybe that's what's helped me know how to coach people is that it was so not natural to me that I really had to dissect it. I really had to figure out how to learn jiu-jitsu. And I think that that has helped me teach other people who maybe feel similarly maybe feel like they're a late bloomer in jujitsu or like it it's not natural to them it took me a long time to figure it out and now nearly 10 years in i feel like i've just now figured out how to learn i feel like i'm just now really understanding jujitsu how i think some people understand it much much sooner into their journey 00:08:58.02 iandawsonmackay I suppose that they say you only learn the basics once you get your black belt, you know, you've but you've only levelled up the first time when you get to black belt because I i have felt like i we were very similar kin, you know, when you were talking about how you you didn't feel, you'd set a loss of sense of self when you went to jujitsu, the beginner, and you were suddenly becoming like a butgeub total beginner. 00:09:22.41 iandawsonmackay And you're like, I don't like being bad at this. And and whenever I hear you you always talk so analytical, so deep and emotional in it, it maybe isn't keen. She's got very similar story to me. And I think that's why I stopped at Bluebelt for till I've just recently signed back up. 00:09:40.04 iandawsonmackay was I didn't like being the but beginner again. I didn't like sucking. 00:09:43.75 Rosie Learn. 00:09:45.20 iandawsonmackay I didn't like getting my ass kicked because everything I did I was good at up to that point. And suddenly you're like, whoa, I don't like this at all. How did you get over that initial so loss of identity, you know loss of the attack on the ego, the hit to being rosy that couldn't just turn up and just do it? 00:10:05.53 iandawsonmackay How did you adapt it, do you think? 00:10:07.34 Rosie Well, I think part of it is actually when I started jujitsu, I went in expecting to be totally lost and expecting to you know be a complete beginner. Because I am fairly physical, I was able to get away with strength for a while. This ended up hurting me in the long run. But I think when I first started, I actually had this facade that I knew more than I did. 00:10:29.91 Rosie And then around, ah it was like two months into training, I competed for the first time. And that was when I gained this radical self-awareness that I sucked and I had no idea what was happening. um And so it was kind of it kind of eased the blow that I'm a very physical person, um you know pretty athletic. So my first couple of months, it's like, all right, i I learned the warmups. I can do these movements. And I actually talked about that in a post today. 00:10:57.69 Rosie being able to move, I think really helped me. um And then that kind of got me hooked on the sport. And then after my first competition, I realized how much I did not know. I got armbarred by a teenager in like 30 seconds. Maybe it was longer. I don't know. It felt very quick to me in the moment. And after that tournament, I wasn't discouraged. I actually appreciated that I now had kind of a benchmark to work with. And I don't know. I just never let it discourage me anymore. I just let it excite me. The more I realized I didn't know, the more I wanted to learn. And so instead of making it become like a part of my identity that I am bad at this or I'm bad at sports or any type of, you know, identifying statement you could make by being new at something. 00:11:50.01 Rosie I just got excited because I saw all these people who had been training longer than me and they were constantly reminding me that they were also a white belt at one point. So I just figured if I could figure out how to learn this, that I could be there one day too. um So every time I realized that there was something I didn't know, I took it as a positive. this is This is a gap that I can bridge. This is a new opportunity instead of this says something about me and who I am and what my abilities are. 00:12:18.53 iandawsonmackay Because you said once the how it was hard to stop caring about your progress. It was hard to to judge be feel judged by the belt. And once you let go of that, you just thought, fuck it. I'm going to go in here. I'm going to achieve. myself you know You stop caring. And you you did it for fun. You did it to enjoy the sport and let go. You enjoyed the process and let go of the result. 00:12:44.52 iandawsonmackay how How did you do that? Because I really wish I could find that in myself, but I struggle. like and And I blame my depression, and anxiety, whatever it is. And I know you said you've had mental health struggles. How how did you find that in yourself to love just failure again, love and join making mistakes? Because I think so many people struggle with that. 00:13:06.73 Rosie Yeah, I love that question. So I actually haven't really talked about mental health that much on any of the podcasts I've been on. So I like that I can kind of talk about that a little bit here. um I think, and this is something that I did not learn immediately, or I wasn't able to put into words immediately. I think it's something I'm just now able to look back on and put into words. But I think for me, training was not about winning or losing, competing was not about winning or losing. 00:13:36.59 Rosie For me, training and competing is about expressing my core values. So, I have a core value that is one I like to stay curious about things, um instead of like, impose my opinion, for example, or impose a judgment. 00:13:56.92 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:13:57.01 Rosie um I also really value challenging myself and doing hard things. um And jiu-jitsu is definitely a way for me to express that. 00:14:07.76 Rosie So then intrinsically, it becomes less about the outcome. just innately. The practice of jujitsu, the reason I do it has nothing really to do with the outcome. Do I want to be successful at it? Do I want to learn? Absolutely. But the main reason I do it is that expression of doing something hard, that expression of staying curious about something that is challenging. um So when I focus on kind of the role it's playing in my life instead of how I am defined on the mat, it becomes easier to worry less about 00:14:40.79 Rosie Am I good and enough? Am I good or bad? And more about, well, what does showing up say about me? what does What am I able to give every time I go to the mat? And I feel like it just continues to make me a better and better person, not only in jujitsu, but it kind of it it allows me to reinforce those values that I want to express everywhere in life, not only in jujitsu. 00:15:03.68 iandawsonmackay I love that. I wish I had you to speak to before I'd given up because I can remember going to training and I was good and I was getting taps and stuff. I wasn't like the standout and I was so not used to being Mr Fixit or the guy that would go and just be good at it and people would say, oh yeah, yeah, he's good at everything he taught you. And then suddenly having a an area of my life where I was dominated. And you know, you're meant to be masculine and brave and tough and that. And then when I remember reading your post, it's like, she gets it, she understands the the kind of mental blanks we have about it, about 00:15:42.65 iandawsonmackay failure about not being able to achieve what we want, how to overcome the fear of failure and stuff. and And I love that about your post is that you go into great detail about these things and you explain it and it's very heartfelt and it's it's really helpful because a lot of people take it up and then leave because of a number of reasons. And I bet you if you asked a lot of people, mental health is probably a ah big aspect of it. So how would you work with your clients to make sure that they have that kind of attitude when they start, how to approach jiu-jitsu to be successful in enjoying it, not just successful in the actual results. 00:16:22.68 Rosie Yeah, so I ask my clients a lot of questions before I tell them anything. um so A big thing that we do is we get really clear on what each individual person's ultimate goals are. 00:16:34.63 Rosie Like what ultimate outcome do you want from jujitsu or do you want from your fitness journey? Like where do you want to be in a year from now in all aspects of your life, right? 00:16:45.12 Rosie Because it gets really easy to hyper focus on jujitsu. But most people I work with, I'm sorry, can I grab my dog for one second? 00:16:51.86 iandawsonmackay i co 00:16:51.99 Rosie She's getting okay sorry getting into a bag of treats. Nope, nope, nope. 00:17:02.18 Rosie I have a little puppy who was trying to get into these treats. 00:17:05.82 iandawsonmackay I always love sometimes you can see people's eyes kind of going 00:17:09.17 Rosie Yeah. Sorry about that. um So. 00:17:12.95 iandawsonmackay thats I'm up in there my parents' like i'm supposeding my parents just now so i'm in their house and every so often my my dog will burst through the door and jump in the bed and you'll see him kind of back and forth and they're like, but you can't just say, get out. 00:17:25.49 Rosie Yeah. 00:17:27.42 iandawsonmackay What kind of puppy is it? 00:17:27.78 Rosie Yeah. Roo, come here. Let's see if she'll look come on screen. She thinks she's gonna get a treat. Come here, come here. All right, maybe not. I have two dogs. 00:17:38.37 Rosie One is like a pit bull boxer type mix, but the puppy, come here. She doesn't wanna come. ah She's like a little Chihuahua type, little littlel mutt. 00:17:47.24 iandawsonmackay Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 00:17:49.16 Rosie So I have one big dog and one tiny dog, but they get along really well. Oh, here she is. 00:17:57.11 Rosie There she is. Her name is Rue. 00:18:05.37 Rosie Yeah. So, all right, so we were talking about oh how I work with my clients and kind of their mindset in jiu-jitsu. So I never really force anything. Some people want to talk about mindset in jiu-jitsu. Some people don't. Some people just come to me for nutrition or strength training, but I do find that it's all related. And so we address it as it comes up. 00:18:27.83 Rosie um And so, for example, I was working with one woman who was like, you know, I'm preparing for Master Worlds, but I'm not even sure I want to compete after this tournament. 00:18:40.48 Rosie And I think what happens with a lot of people is they start to feel pressure on what competition or being a competitor, whatever that means in jujitsu is supposed to look like. 00:18:49.87 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:18:50.03 Rosie Because we have professional level athletes training so closely and, you know, oftentimes being at the same tournaments as amateur athletes or recreational athletes, it can be easy to think that how I train as an amateur or recreational person or someone who does this for fun needs to be the same as what these people are doing whose livelihood depends on it. And the truth is, it's not the same. And most people who do jujitsu, most people who compete in jujitsu unless you are the top top elite and i train with those people i see them everyday the truth is most people have a life outside of jujitsu have priorities on outside of jujitsu and yes the people at the very top sometimes they do too sometimes they have families but jujitsu still plays a much different role 00:19:30.25 iandawsonmackay Now. 00:19:38.73 Rosie in their life. It is literally their job, their income, their livelihood, right? And so if you are pursuing this for personal growth, even if you want to do it as a career, we we there's like led levels to this, right? um But you have to find out what role it plays in your life. 00:19:58.15 Rosie um and identify how that fits in with who you are off the mat. And that's where the core values practice really comes comes in handy to make sure that we are pursuing this as an expression of what your values are in life instead of as this external third-party demand that is detracting from your life. 00:20:21.22 Rosie So what this client recognized was, one, she was putting a lot of pressure on herself to you know cut weight and and be this hardcore person when when really that was sucking the joy out of it. And she felt like she needed to be the smallest weight class she could make in order to be a competitor or compete a certain way and prepare a certain way. 00:20:43.82 Rosie And it was taking the fun out of it. And so after, well, actually, before Master Worlds, we kind of changed course. And I recommended that she did not cut weight, that we stayed at a weight class that allowed her to enjoy other aspects of her life, still train hard, still be dedicated, but also have energy to be a mom and a business owner um and all these other things that were very important to her. 00:21:04.65 Rosie And we immediately saw an energy shift. She was immediately more excited to compete. She had the best performance that she's ever had in competition at Master Worlds just by aligning her actions with her values. um And so Jiu-Jitsu, again, became an expression of that instead of something taking away from her life or this distraction from her life. It became like a very integrated part of her life. 00:21:31.06 Rosie And i also think this is what the people at the highest level are doing to only their values are and their career are more united in jujitsu so you know if they want to give a hundred percent to their job and a hundred percent to jujitsu those happen to be the same thing and most most times right um so i think. 00:21:50.87 Rosie knowing what your values are, how you want to express yourself in jiu-jitsu, what you want your life to look like outside of jiu-jitsu and with jiu-jitsu, and finding that harmony is really important. A lot of people talk about balance. 00:22:01.02 Rosie And when I think about balance, I think about equal parts of everything, um or everything being on the same a level playing field. But when I think about harmony, I think about enough of each aspect, right? 00:22:14.02 Rosie If we think about a chord in music, it's not necessarily equal parts of every note. 00:22:14.55 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:22:20.11 Rosie it's ah It's you know enough of each tone to make the sound that we want. And so it might not be equal parts of everything in your life. But as long as you have enough of each of your priorities, you're going to have a more harmonious life. It's going to feel better instead of trying to give 100% to everything. You just have to give enough to each thing. 00:22:44.22 iandawsonmackay um I wish I had you i found your work so much sooner because ike it it just hits home. It explains why I feel the way I was feeling because I would feel so anxious about every training session that if my training partner said, oh, I can't make it today. I'd be like, oh building I've got this to do. I'd always have an excuse. 00:23:05.89 iandawsonmackay And the times you would turn up, I would hate when we'd have to shift partners and have a new person to roll with. Because in my head, I was like, if I lose this, they're going to think I'm crap. If I do something bad, they're going to think I'm crap. I was constantly having this like internal prison that you dragged along with you. 00:23:23.63 iandawsonmackay and I like that attitude of how do you make jiu-jitsu something fun and enjoyable and fit in with your life rather than something that's a struggle, a challenge. How would you do use that exercise or something like that? How would you get them to understand their core beliefs? Is it just by asking questions? 00:23:43.98 Rosie A lot of it is by asking questions or even reflecting on your life. So some people, um when we reflect on the actions that we take, so maybe I say, hey, look at your life over the last week or month, whatever time period feels relevant. And I would say if you had to indicate what your values are only based off of the actions that you've taken, not by how you feel. If you just look at the actions you've taken and the choices you've made, what does that say about what your values are? 00:24:13.09 Rosie does that align with what you rationally think your values are? And sometimes we see alignment and sometimes we see misalignment. Sometimes we say, oh, actually my values aren't what I thought they were because these actions actually feel very true for me. Now I have to revisit that. Or sometimes we say, 00:24:28.27 Rosie my actions and my values or my expectations have not been aligning and that opens up the room to kind of do some further exploration. um So there's a different ways. I have like worksheets and stuff that we work through um to kind of figure this out and figure out what's most important to each to each individual. Now you mentioned something um but that I think is really important about, you know, what if I do this and I go with this person and I fail or they think I suck? 00:24:58.29 Rosie Right? um Because we can oftentimes get ourselves very excited to prepare for something, but then taking action on those decisions is the hard part because we feel like that's where we can pass or fail. 00:25:08.64 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:25:12.27 Rosie And I think that's because we see action, we see that test as like this end point. And sometimes it can feel like a public failure is much bigger than private victories. 00:25:26.11 Rosie And so if I go with a new partner and they see me fail, that's going to feel a lot bigger because it feels like the stakes are higher. It's a new person. They don't know me. They just know this experience they had with me. And if I fail, then that defines me. It feels big, right? But the truth is, 00:25:44.21 Rosie A public failure or taking action, taking a risk and failing is just another piece of the whole puzzle. It's just another piece of those private successes and failures that we've had along the way. And I think we see, you know, like preparation, mindset, training, nutrition, strength training, all of this leading up to this moment that's going to determine, do we get to be confident? Do I get to believe in myself? Do I deserve this? 00:26:11.21 Rosie But that's not the truth. This thing that feels so big at the end is really just another piece of the puzzle that's gonna continue to feed information on is the way I'm training working for me? is it Is it benefiting me or not? Is it helping or hurting? Do I need to change anything about the way I'm training? Do I need to change anything about my self-talk? Do I need to change anything about my nutrition? It all feeds at each other. So it's not this linear path where we prepare, we prepare, we prepare, we test. 00:26:42.03 Rosie It's all fueling itself. So when we can look at that test, that that perceived failure as just another piece of information, another piece of data, another part of this experience, um and it's kind of all together instead of this linear fashion, I think it becomes much easier to um utilize failure instead of be determined by it or or judged by it. 00:27:06.62 Rosie Easier said than done but it is also something that needs to be practiced if you want to move through it. 00:27:08.47 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:27:15.09 iandawsonmackay I love that really like it's really hard not to stop and start taking notes. I keep forgetting I've got to ask the next question because it's you is's like light bulbs are just going off and going. That's why I do that. That's why I do that. And because I used to have the identity of I started at 30. 00:27:34.97 iandawsonmackay 36 or something like that. I'm 41 now and I stopped for about a year and a bit now but I did it for about just over two years and it really really was I was loving it and enjoying it when I was good but if I tapped I would be annoyed if I got and idiot-sweeped in a game you know like when you go round like keep the kettle boiling when you just go round and round, three people in the middle and you would just keep going and challenging them. No one cared if your past failed or whatever, but in my head I was keeping score and I would go home sometimes and spend a weekend ruing about the mistakes I made. Completely stupid. 00:28:14.15 iandawsonmackay But I couldn't let go of that. And I'm assuming that's ego. But I would also tell myself, no, no, no you're 36. Of course, you're not going to be as fast as these young boys. But then I learned pressure passing. 00:28:25.49 iandawsonmackay Completely different story. ah You started it was at 24. How did you find that kind of, you know, because I think you said in the submission shark and interview you did where you went 00:28:31.07 Rosie Yes. 00:28:40.23 iandawsonmackay I think I started at the right time. How do we get that mindset that it doesn't matter when you start, the fact that you've started is the best thing you've done? 00:28:49.06 Rosie Yeah, so ah first of all, why worry about what you can't control, right? That's just gonna lead to suffering, anxiety, excuses, really. If you keep saying, if only I started at this point, you're only holding yourself back. So why think on helpful dots, right? um So there's, you know, I read a lot on mindset and some of the top mindset coaches in the world They say you you have to tell yourself whatever thought is helpful. For example, if you are on a hot streak and you feel like you are succeeding everywhere, you're going to tell yourself, I'm on a roll. I'm due to win. 00:29:34.29 Rosie Right? I'm on a roll. I'm going to keep succeeding. I'm going to keep winning. But if you're on a losing streak, you flip the script and you say, I'm due to win. Probability says, if I've missed this many shots, I'm due to make my next one. Right? So the narrative doesn't have to be exactly the same. It has to be whatever helps you. And I think a lot of people think that if I think I've been on a losing streak. I'm due to win. They think when they're on a winning streak, they're due to fail. And you can't think like that, right? And so a lot of what we talk about with mindset is creating whatever narrative helps you progress and helps you move forward. um And so it's the same thing with like, when you start jujitsu, if you start as a kid, it doesn't mean you would have been better off starting later. 00:30:23.61 Rosie or if you started later, it doesn't mean you'd be better off starting at a different point in time. You have to find the narrative that fits your situation and makes it the most helpful, ah best possibility for the best outcome that you want, right? 00:30:33.73 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:30:39.06 Rosie So I started at 24. I can't control that I didn't start sooner, even, oh fireworks. Can you see this? 00:30:45.75 iandawsonmackay That's like, that's like, that's cool. 00:30:48.69 Rosie Yeah, um so I can't control. I can't control that I didn't start earlier, even though I'm sure it would be cool. It would be absolutely great to be a 10-year-old prodigy in jujitsu, you know, but that's not my story. 00:31:00.47 Rosie And so I'm not going to waste time and mental energy wishing that was my story. 00:31:00.64 iandawsonmackay yeah 00:31:04.99 Rosie I started right when I needed it, and I've turned that into a great journey and a great life in the last 10 years. um So I think just reminding myself that what good does it do to to think on helpful thoughts? The night I got my blue belt, actually, we went out to a Brazilian club and I ran into a very prominent black belt there. And he's the one who kind of told me that that day. He said, you just who will find you when you need it most. So because I felt like I felt like I needed to 00:31:36.21 Rosie um disclaim like oh I started in my 20s and now that I have more perspective I see that man people start at all different phases of life and they make it mean something to them and that's really the most important thing and so that's something that's just really kind of stuck with me over the years. so 00:31:54.95 iandawsonmackay I knew you were going to be good, but I didn't expect this because it's you there was so much of like the mental i health mindset stuff and then there was the technique stuff and I could probably do a podcast on both because your technique stuff is amazing, your videos, your instructionals, your coaching, but it's your mindset. It's the fixes that I think you help so many people with. so What would you do for people who are ruining themselves after a bad training session? How do you mentally reset to go back into the next session? So you're not carrying this emotional negative energy of I need to get up one up on you because you tapped me last time. But just see it as a you're a step on the journey that you were talking about earlier. 00:32:38.36 Rosie Yeah, so I want to go ahead and make this clear. Just because I have this mindset and I train this mindset, it does not mean that I don't have days where I come home from training crying or where I feel like I want to run to the bathroom and melt down because I feel like a complete failure. 00:32:56.68 iandawsonmackay i call them weekdays 00:32:56.96 Rosie You will see. Yes. 00:32:58.44 iandawsonmackay yeah 00:33:01.16 Rosie Weekdays, W-E-A-K and W-E-E-K. Weekdays and weekdays. 00:33:05.28 iandawsonmackay ah yes 00:33:07.38 Rosie um So I absolutely still have those feelings. I still have negative thoughts. i But that is the point of practicing this, right? I like to say meditation is easy when you are in a quiet room with no noise, right? You can be zen. But can you also be zen and meditate when you are in the middle of you know, five o'clock traffic and people are honking at you and cutting you off, right? 00:33:33.24 Rosie That's when you really need that mindfulness. And the same is with mindset and mental training. It's easy to talk about this on a podcast away from anything triggering, but can you practice those same mental habits when you're met with a hard day, when you're crying after training, when you feel like a failure, how quickly 00:33:45.16 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:33:58.42 Rosie Can you reframe? And it doesn't mean that you are going to feel like it's true immediately. It just means you're able to take control of your conscious thoughts. and stop the floodgates of negativity. Even if you still feel defeated, even if you still feel inadequate, you're able to start consciously rebuilding and consciously sending yourself the thoughts that are going to be most helpful to you. So it's not only about how many times you get back up, it's about how quickly you can start that process. 00:34:31.59 Rosie um and it will not and doesn't have to feel completely true it just has to be helpful so i like to actually stay away from like positive and negative thoughts because sometimes if we're like feigning positivity it can just feel fake right like if i'm in my car crying after training because i feel utterly worthless and like i failed at every exchange you can do it just doesn't hit quite right. But if I'm able to actually take that narrative and turn it into something that feels a little bit helpful, I'm going to be more willing to think those thoughts. So I can ask myself, is what I'm telling myself right now helpful or hurtful? If it's hurtful, I'm going to start reframing. And I'm going to start turning anything that feels negative into a helpful alternative. 00:35:25.66 Rosie For example, um I'm trying to think of a real life example. Well, one thing I do after training often is I do um yeah ESP journaling. What's one area I put a lot of success, or what's one area I put a lot of effort? What's one area I succeeded today? What's one area I made progress, even if I didn't succeed? okay And so this can kind of turn perceived failures into places of of progress or opportunity. So, you know, ah maybe my guard got passed, or whatever, right. 00:36:03.94 Rosie um well Okay, my guard got passed here but now I have that awareness of this position and maybe that position has been happening a lot of times. And so this next area that I'm going to make progress is I'm going to kind of zone in on that and I know this is a problem area for me and I know this is somewhere that I need to improve, and this is going to level up my jujitsu so exposure becomes a positive thing. 00:36:25.89 Rosie Right? um So I'm not sure if that was the best example, but that's one way that we can kind of look at perceived failure and say, all right, this is actually something I need to improve. It doesn't mean I'm bad at jujitsu. It doesn't mean I'm bad. It just means this is an area that needs improvement, potentially. Alternatively, if it's kind of a one-off thing, um we don't need to overanalyze and overly dwell on our failures. It's okay. Sometimes we just have a crap day, you know, and As long as we're being real with ourselves and holding ourselves accountable and actually looking at our patterns, it's okay to say, hey, today was a crap day. Those days happen. Good thing I get to try again later today or tomorrow or whenever your next training session is. 00:37:08.06 iandawsonmackay I love that. I love that approach of like conditioning the brain to kind of interrupt that thoughts of, you suck, you're worthless, you're this. And like to actually go, yeah, you could improve on this. Let's focus on that next time. Because I think that I did cognitive behavior therapy when um I tried to have really bad depression. And I remember somebody saying, you're not your thoughts. That's just your brain throwing all these prompts out based on um what you've been telling yourself for all these years and yeah it's like you're saying you have to reposition that and it's like you're saying create the new neural pathways you know you this happens and this is how we want you to react and that's what you're actually going to do and I love that I love that I kind of approach and do you find you get a lot of people who'd say 00:37:42.60 Rosie Yes. absolutely 00:37:53.51 iandawsonmackay No, I could do jujitsu well, but I've got a damaged knee. I hurt my shoulder. So I could be there because you've had a lot of health issues yourself and you've come back. What did these things sort of teach you about why we wear these as a sort of badge of honor as much as ah what did they teach you about life and what we're truly capable of? 00:38:15.28 Rosie Yeah, it's funny. I actually, so I have a minor, minor, minor injury right now. I pulled my my hamstring or my glute earlier this week training. 00:38:23.37 iandawsonmackay I like you cause I'm a minor. 00:38:23.42 Rosie and Yeah, minor. 00:38:25.95 iandawsonmackay It stops you walking. 00:38:26.98 Rosie It's not like it's not inhibiting me. It's just a little annoying, a little uncomfortable. And I turned to one of my coaches yesterday and I said, I know this is kind of a sick thought. 00:38:38.35 Rosie And I know I shouldn't need an injury to do this. But I kind of like these small injuries because I go to train. And um so my favorite guard to play is tarantula. 00:38:49.19 Rosie And in order for me to play tarantula, I have to extend my leg very far. And that's actually how I pulled the muscle. And so I'm avoiding that guard right now, and avoiding my favorite guard, the one I feel the best at. 00:38:56.17 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 00:39:01.67 Rosie And I said, in a sick way, I kind of like being injured because it reminds me that I can explore other ways to do jujitsu. I can do other things I wouldn't ordinarily do. I'm playing guard on the opposite side now. I'm getting into positions I wouldn't ordinarily seek out just because I'm trying to avoid irritating my hamstring. 00:39:21.67 Rosie And I said, I know I shouldn't need an injury to do it, but it's a nice reminder. And so again, kind of reframing anything as a positive, if it's the type of injury or health issue that I can work around. i'm But my more significant injuries like my concussions, ACL surgery, um those sorts of things, 00:39:44.17 Rosie ACL surgery, not so much. I i was a blue belt when that happened and I was still like all in on, you know, jujitsu is my identity. It's who I am. If I can't do this, I don't know who I am. 00:39:57.12 Rosie I was very much still in that state of mind. 00:39:57.77 iandawsonmackay Mm. 00:39:59.86 Rosie um I was very active competing. um And so I, I handled my ACL injury much differently than the concussions I basically my whole life was still jujitsu rehab became my new sport. I think it was good, the way I handled it for that time in my life because that was my one and only priority. 00:40:18.70 Rosie ah And I showed myself that I will find a way to train and, you know, stay focused no matter what. So I couldn't train jiu-jitsu, but I could study. I was taking notes. I was still at every single live event. I was going and I was watching training. I was doing my rehab. I was strength training only upper body and my un-affective leg. um I was kind of crazy. I was showing up to the gym with gone crutches and the whole everything. 00:40:46.48 Rosie If I saw that girl now, I'd be like, girl, you need to chill, you know? um Then by the time I started experiencing my concussions, this was after COVID and my approach was a little bit different. I had gone through some other just hard things in life and I just didn't have like I don't know, I was realizing that this is my brain and if my identity relies so much on jiu-jitsu and 00:41:20.65 Rosie being this certain type of person in jujitsu that I'm willing to risk my brain health and I mean it was pretty scary for me. I felt very disoriented and very ah out of it. 00:41:34.38 Rosie I did not feel like myself and I think of myself as a pretty cerebral person and to not be able to 00:41:38.27 iandawsonmackay Hmm. 00:41:40.72 Rosie operate that way, or to be completely exhausted from just thinking, it was new for me. And it kind of made me realize that I need to figure out how to be okay, if jujitsu isn't in the cards for me. um And that was hard. And that was scary. And that's part of what ah inspired me to start my Instagram page um and kind of inspired me to start learning differently. Prior to my concussions, I was very much a train super hard, everyday with pohada type of girl. And, you know, being tough was not my weakness, being technical was. And so when I started having issues with concussions, it really just motivated me 00:42:26.82 Rosie to find a better way to learn, to find a better way to train. And I wish I had been learning and training this way my entire time in jujitsu. Because let me tell you what, like if we compare effort to progress. i am ah Maybe not effort, effort might not be the right word, but the ratio of progress to mat time and like damage to my body, damage to my body is at an all-time low. Mat time, I still have a lot of mat time, but not nearly as much as when I was a blue belt, even early purple belt. 00:42:57.94 Rosie but my progress is exponentially more. And some of this could be because I have a decade of experience behind me. However, I still think it's disproportionately greater now compared to back then, just because my methods are so much more effective. 00:43:13.85 iandawsonmackay I love it. I love how open you are about it because it's so refreshing to hear somebody's not coming out and going like Gordon Ryan, you know that, oh, I'm just the best because I know it all. you know And I love this side of jiu-jitsu practitioners where they're kind of like, yeah, I struggle with this. This is why help this is how I needed help. and and There's so many people that leave the sport because they can't get over that initial hurdles. And I love how you thought that you this was it. You weren't going to be able to continue jiu-jitsu. So you started an Instagram page that's helping thousands and thousands of people get better at jiu-jitsu and be better human beings. And you were kind of just like, well, it's just a last resort. 00:43:51.89 iandawsonmackay and you're changing so many lives by doing this and you should be super proud of the work that you do and it's every time i look at one of your posts i get something kind of that helps me cognitively as much as technique wise and i think that's what makes you such a good coach as you've been through the trenches you know and you're open and willing to discuss it how do you kind of work with during that time that you were you had lost your job that you had you went to live in a car etc how did you deal with that real struggle because i was sort of thinking about that today it's like you know that'd be great if you were doing it but not if it's a negative you know like if you chose to do that lifestyle and i i've just lost ah well left the job and i i can't remember what it's like not to be working 00:44:43.67 iandawsonmackay And i I realized I tied myself up in the identity of being working for this company. And I was like, I don't know who I am anymore. How did you realign yourself back to becoming this badass, this amazing version of Rose that we see today? 00:45:00.96 Rosie Well, I think for me, well, a couple of things. There's two separate times I've lived in a vehicle. So the first time was I was still a white belt, I believe. And um i had that I was working at a gym, and the gym I worked out closed. 00:45:15.88 Rosie The owner didn't even tell us that they were closing. I just showed up for work one day, boards were locked. 00:45:18.16 iandawsonmackay Not nice. 00:45:20.66 Rosie Yeah, and um my roommate had already. Well, that's a longer situation, I had a little stalker for a period of time so I kind of wanted to move out of this place because the police weren't doing anything about it. 00:45:25.28 iandawsonmackay Jeez. 00:45:33.47 Rosie And my roommates partner was moving in. so Before I knew that I wasn't going to have a job, I had kind of already agreed to move out, but it's very hard to find a new apartment if you don't have a source of income. So, it was kind of just the worst timing. um I have a super supportive family, okay? My family said, Rose, come home, find a new job, get back on your feet, 00:45:59.10 Rosie go back out to San Diego. And I said, actually, honestly, I would rather just stay in San Diego and live in my car. I'd rather stay here, keep training. I spend most of my time at the Jiu-Jitsu Academy anyways. It's fine. um So that was very much my choice. it's It's not like I had hit this low point in life and I was forced to live in my car. 00:46:19.58 Rosie I had other options. um And I also had a very supportive community in San Diego. So I did have friends that would let me spend the night at their house. I spent many nights in my car, um but I did have people who would let me shower at their house and you know cook or have a meal at their house and sometimes spend the night. 00:46:35.86 iandawsonmackay Two friends there. 00:46:37.30 Rosie Yeah, um and so for me, it was kind of like, I don't know, it was a very liberating and empowering experience to know that I could be okay no matter what, but I think the thing that made me confident enough to take that risk was knowing I i can go back to Florida. I could get in my car and start driving now, you know? um And so, yes, that was like a hard experience, but it was also, 00:47:06.77 Rosie an experience that I welcomed at the same time. um The second time I lived out of a vehicle was during COVID. I had just gone through a breakup and I had wanted to do van life for quite some time. 00:47:17.24 Rosie And lots of people at Autos at the time were living in a van to train full time. And I thought, so when you talk about the identity, for me, it wasn't so much a deconstruction of my identity at these times. 00:47:28.20 Rosie It was almost an opportunity for me to build my identity. I remember thinking, 00:47:31.73 iandawsonmackay What about Because there's 00:47:32.92 Rosie I want to be that cool chick that lives in a van with her dog and trains jujitsu all the time. And that's exactly what I did. So instead of it being a deconstruction of my identity when I was going through those things, I allowed it to help me create an identity that I was proud of. um so And also, we're super tied to any particular identity. like i'm I've experienced a lot of things. My friends like to say that I've had 10 lives. um So I just really accept experiences as they come. And like I said at the beginning, I stay curious about them. And anything anything I'm going to make a useful, helpful situation in my life, anything that happens 00:48:14.29 Rosie to me is happening for me in some way. And so again, I'm going to reframe it in a way that is a net positive for me. 00:48:22.31 iandawsonmackay I love your mindset. It's so refreshing. And it's it's ah I kind of really wish I'd met you when I was like younger because I could have sat there and probably saved myself a ton of therapy, at that a ton of time thinking, oh, you sat here this year that. And I found myself by doing the podcast. And now, because I've worked in this company for 12 years, suddenly I was leaving. It was like, I don't know who I am anymore. I've stopped jujitsu. I've stopped playing football. I've stopped doing, you know, and i then realized all I was doing was working. 00:48:52.17 iandawsonmackay And it was this amazing. 00:48:52.57 Rosie who do you want be 00:48:54.31 iandawsonmackay And I was like, I don't know anymore. And I was like, I want to get back to training because training helps you forget that noise in your head and just get you in back in the moment. And there's a book called um called Crunch Time by Jude Hoskra. 00:49:06.43 iandawsonmackay I don't know if you know. um Have you seen that? 00:49:08.44 Rosie read it but out 00:49:09.82 iandawsonmackay Well, it's I'll send you the link for after. But it's and the best thing about it is it shows you how he reframes threats as opportunities. And I actually used to take an Evernote and it would have a table and it would be, what's the threat I'm feeling? How am I going to turn it into an opportunity? And just that kind of take a negative, make it into positive was absolutely, oh, this is amazing. and Brent Smith, I interviewed him in episode number two and he said, you're not your story. 00:49:37.35 iandawsonmackay You can change the story you tell about yourself, about your situation or who you are in seconds and live this different lifestyle. Whoa, no one had it. I always thought I was this lob of a thing. 00:49:50.25 iandawsonmackay And then it was like, you want to get in shape? What's stopping you? You want to become this? 00:49:53.50 Rosie Well, it's so powerful when you realize that. 00:49:55.72 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 00:49:56.89 Rosie And so Richard Bach is one of my favorite authors. And he writes, I believe, and it's in his book, um Illusions of a Reluctant Messiah, great book. 00:50:07.57 Rosie And he writes, you are free to change your future or your past at any time. And that used to confuse me. I used to be like, how can you change your past? How can you, how can you change your past? 00:50:19.50 Rosie But he's talking about the story you tell yourself about your past. You're free to change that at any time. 00:50:25.14 iandawsonmackay Okay. 00:50:25.47 Rosie And so I started going through therapy when I was six years old because my uncle passed away and I was super, super close to him. So I have been in and out of therapy quite literally my entire life. 00:50:36.47 Rosie And I remember as a kid, I would write out my story. My name is you know Rose Miller. I was born on this day. This is, and go through chronologically, my story. And every time I would go to a new therapist, I would tell them the story the exact same way. And then when I finally really, really understood what Richard Bach meant by that quote, you are free to change your future or your past at any moment, I started telling my story differently. 00:51:02.22 Rosie Um, to where I was no longer a victim of the circumstances that happened. Those things did happen to me. Horrible things have happened. 00:51:10.01 iandawsonmackay Oh. 00:51:10.26 Rosie And also I'm not weaker because of them. I'm not bound by them. I'm not limited by them. I'm not inadequate because of them. Um, and I think realizing that you have the power to change how you tell yourself the story is incredibly powerful. 00:51:27.16 iandawsonmackay That is so badass. Because it's so nice to see somebody else kind of explaining that they went through that and that they've gone to therapy and stuff. Because a lot of people see it as there's some sort of a stigma. 00:51:39.90 iandawsonmackay you know It's like a dirty little secret. And every time somebody writes to me, I'll say, oh, I said CBT. I've taken anti-depressants. And I was thinking, why would I hide? something that made me who I am. and And if it helped one person go, I think I had a student who came to me years ago when I was working in university and he was on about, and he was, you know, head down, eyes on the floor. And I'm saying, how are you doing? You spoken to the doctor and a i the and heard antidepressants through the mumble. And as soon as I said, oh, yeah, I've been on antidepressants. Don't worry about it. He head came up. 00:52:18.22 iandawsonmackay And he was asking open-ended questions and he was a bit more talkative and I thought, that's all he needed was to know that I wasn't going to judge him for taking something that would help him mentally. And I think that's what scares a lot of men, women, kids and that, that they think they're not normal, but they're going to be judged by saying out loud, 00:52:38.66 iandawsonmackay I've got intrusive thoughts, I've got OCD, I've got whatever it is. and My intrusive thoughts were horrible. And I can remember telling myself, you'd be locked up if you said that out loud. And as soon as I found out about what intrusive thoughts OCD, it's like, ah, that's my brain working against me. Fuck. 00:52:56.94 iandawsonmackay I don't understand that. And I think that's a beauty of therapy. Did you find it helpful or do you find the journaling more helpful? Do you find CBT, and NLP? what What was the best thing for you to kind of help you use Jiu Jitsu to express yourself? But the talk therapy, the expression, the journaling, what was the best combination for you? 00:53:19.44 Rosie I think different things at different points in life when I was dealing with different things. um Journaling has always been extremely powerful for me. um so After my uncle passed away when I was six years old, I started journaling then. My therapist at the time told my mom to get a journal for me. and so I have journals from the time I was six years old. so That's something that I've done. 00:53:40.87 Rosie pretty much my whole life and that's probably how I find it easiest to express myself. I have a background in creative writing so it's a very natural um way for me to express myself. I think I'm probably better at writing than I am at speaking um and so 00:53:54.69 iandawsonmackay but your're bloody good you're bloody good at that but it's 00:53:57.35 Rosie Thank you. I did find talk therapy helpful just because I think it's helpful for me to get thoughts out of my brain and um there's a ah quote I really like that says, shame does not exist in the light. 00:54:12.46 Rosie And I found a lot of truth with that. Whenever I have expressed something that I was embarrassed about, shameful about, um it has helped a lot. And whenever I've kept those things to myself, it has hurt me a lot. 00:54:19.56 iandawsonmackay Well, you're bloody good at that. 00:54:22.04 Rosie um And so I always find my anxiety, ADHD symptoms, um everything is heightened if I'm not speaking my full truth or if there's an experience I haven't shared. um So I think those two things have been the most powerful for me from a mental health perspective, but also even for learning jujitsu. I learned very well when I talk about jujitsu. I learned very well when I journal about jujitsu. um And so just kind of the process of working through it. 00:54:52.36 Rosie needing it, both for mental health and ah for just overall learning. Because if I look at mental health, it's kind of understanding about myself. Like you said, oh, I didn't understand that before. 00:55:02.83 Rosie And now I do. And it doesn't feel like something's wrong with me. It just feels like something I didn't understand before. But now that I understand that's how my brain functions, I feel like I know how to work with it. 00:55:10.33 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 00:55:15.51 Rosie Right? And so I feel like therapy is really just coming to understand yourself. And I approach learning jujitsu very much the same way. There is this situation I didn't previously understand. And if I actually take the time to kind of dissect it or ask people about it and talk about it, I'm going to understand it a lot more and it's less daunting. 00:55:35.79 iandawsonmackay Because that's what they say, isn't it? It's like the best therapy is one that actually lets you come to the realization. It's not giving you the answers. It's asking you the questions to help you start going, oh, I never thought about it like that. 00:55:47.59 iandawsonmackay Oh, I never thought of that. And it's that moment a light bulb just clicks and it's like two pathways just kind of go, OK, fine. Let's give you the next step. It's like the video game when the map opens up a bit more and you find out about yourself. 00:56:01.31 Rosie Yeah. 00:56:03.19 iandawsonmackay how then do you 00:56:03.59 Rosie Well, there's context to this. This makes a lot more sense once I see the landscape. 00:56:05.61 iandawsonmackay but 00:56:08.27 iandawsonmackay So what well how would you how would you use then Jiu-Jitsu to express yourself, to find your confidence, to to you know find to use your core values to to push yourself out there? I love how we've not even talked about technique and computing and all that that kind of stuff, but ah how do we start finding who we are as a person and improving as a person by using Jiu-Jitsu, do you think? 00:56:34.51 Rosie Yeah, so I think, like I said at the beginning, a lot of it comes down to knowing what core values you want to embody in life and then seeing, can I express those through jiu-jitsu? And so, you know, for me, like I mentioned, I like doing hard things. I value curiosity. I also really value um being a student and I'm, a um ah I don't want to say I'm a perfectionist, but I want to know that the answers I have for things in jujitsu will work at a higher level. 00:57:06.33 Rosie So I think that's where I get so um consumed with studying, you know? 00:57:10.94 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 00:57:11.80 Rosie um But that also pushes me to get out of my comfort zone, show up on the days that I don't, I might not feel like training. Well, I don't feel like training, but I do want to be the type of person that does uncomfortable things, that does hard things. 00:57:27.58 Rosie that kind of person shows up on a day they don't want to train. So I'm going to show up on a day I don't want to train, right? It makes it a part of my m MO. Or you know um I want to i want to have i wouldn't be able to perform more consistently. Well, if I want to be the kind of person that can perform more consistently, then I have to raise what my performance is on my worst day. And in order to raise what my performance is on my worst day, 00:57:54.18 Rosie I gotta show up on the days I don't want to, right? And I have to have my worst days and I have to start seeing them get incrementally better. And in order to do that, I gotta train on my worst days. And so everything becomes ah a step of progress, even if it's not a great day, right? um I think the other thing, the other way that you can kind of express yourself through jujitsu is what how how i perform jujitsu what does that say about me does that say that i'm timid and i'm scared does that say that i'm aggressive and confident does it say that i'm methodical and patient like what does my jujitsu actually say about me um if i was to look if i'm looking as a third person looking in what what message am i sending you know and 00:58:46.32 iandawsonmackay I love that. 00:58:46.70 Rosie That's something that I like to think about. like what What does my performance say about me, almost even from like an intellectual or artistic perspective? you know Do I look like someone who's very cerebral about my jujitsu, a do or do I look like an artist? 00:58:58.11 Rosie There's not necessarily a good or bad, but I think it's kind of fun to think about, what what does my jujitsu say about me? And you can see different styles and competitors, right? 00:59:06.26 iandawsonmackay never so 00:59:08.79 Rosie There's a lot of different styles out there. um Yeah. 00:59:12.84 iandawsonmackay I never thought about using it as a self-expression. It's like that creative output. you dont you're You're not just doing the sport. You're using it as a way to express who you are, how you're feeling about the world, and your own development. 00:59:26.01 iandawsonmackay And that's really, I love that idea. Because I remember reading somewhere where they said, did you really have a bad day, or did you just have a shitty 20 minutes? ah just That's what you're focusing on. 00:59:36.03 Rosie Yeah. 00:59:37.92 iandawsonmackay And I've just realized how much I've sworn through this podcast, so apologies. 00:59:41.18 Rosie All good. I love it. 00:59:42.56 iandawsonmackay Another one was and there was something about like there. 00:59:42.93 Rosie um Oh, i was oh so that that kind of practice of what does my jujitsu say about me? 00:59:48.49 iandawsonmackay Oh no, sorry, sorry, go ahead. 00:59:54.83 Rosie um I think that also helps me have fun with jujitsu when I'm forgetting how to have fun with it. um so I know that i typical i I tend to be a very like methodical patient type of person with my jujitsu, but maybe if I'm forgetting how to have fun with jujitsu, I'll go in and I will you know want to be super creative. 01:00:07.60 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 01:00:16.33 Rosie and so like I'm not going to do anything for my A-game, and I'm going to see how creative I can be, how much I can discover. And that can kind of help bring a new perspective, lessen the pressure, and and bring some fun. So I'll try to express something different that may not be as natural to me to express. So instead of thinking about a specific technique, I'll just think about a different way to do jujitsu, a different way of even moving. 01:00:42.03 Rosie So, um you know, today I'm going to try to be nonstop movement because typically I rely a lot on patience and pressure. um And this is very foreign to me. I'm probably not going to be good at it, but I'm also probably going to learn something and have some fun along the way. 01:00:54.70 iandawsonmackay All right. Because that's what I always love is every one of your videos, you come on, you've got a smile on your face, you're having a laugh, but you're also just, you look like you're just in the moment. You're enjoying that. It doesn't matter what happens, it's, well, if I fail, I learn. If I do well, I'm still learning. I'm doing this because it's something I want to do, like you were saying earlier. You're not doing it because you think you have to or trying to force it. You're doing it because it's, what does it mean to you? 01:01:25.26 iandawsonmackay and it's a way for you to express yourself. I love that. How do you approach training? Like what in your head are you coming in and thinking, I'm going to focus on this move. I'm going to focus on this type of mentality or this kind of approaching. How do you make sure that you get what you need from the sport while you train? 01:01:46.85 Rosie Yeah, so I think right now I'm in a season of specificity. I think I've spent a lot of my time in jujitsu um getting becoming knowledgeable generally about a lot of different types of positions. And my focus now is I want to have depth of knowledge. I want to be able to apply or have answers for quote unquote my A game at a pretty high level. And so um I'm going, 01:02:15.30 Rosie with the intention of deepening my knowledge on my A game. So there are specific positions that I want to play. This has pros and cons. I am learning these positions very deeply and sometimes I get hyper focused on them and I get frustrated if that's not what the game board is showing me today, right? 01:02:33.68 Rosie You don't always get to, especially when you're training with some very high level people like I train with, I don't always get to impose or choose what the game board looks like. 01:02:33.76 iandawsonmackay Yeah. 01:02:42.06 Rosie um And so I can run into frustration there, but it's a great practice of me, you know, being focused, having that intention, wanting to impose my game, and also needing to adapt to the situation at hand. So I would say that's really my focus right now, um but I still try to vary my intention with each training depending on what class I'm going to. 01:03:03.38 Rosie um And sometimes I have more control over this and other times I don't. So if I feel like I'm in a period, maybe I'm going to comp class a lot where I don't feel like I have as much control over what training looks like. A lot of times in comp class, we're doing a lot of specific training. And Professor Galvao is kind of telling us what positions we are training and he's setting the parameters. 01:03:23.67 Rosie That is awesome. And it's giving me practice and reps on things that I might not otherwise be working on. But I usually set up my own private training with just a few trusted training partners where we can explore and workshop and work on the positions that we want to. So if I feel like I'm not getting the autonomy in my main training sessions that I would like to focus on what I want to focus on, I do set up training outside of that to supplement that. 01:03:49.34 Rosie um And I mean, I teach multiple times a week as well, which I'm oftentimes not teaching exactly what I'm working on, but it is kind of nice to go back to the basics and rework the details. 01:04:01.89 Rosie And the better I can express it and explain it to a group of beginners, the better I know it, I think. So that's something that in recent recent months has helped me a lot. 01:04:08.18 iandawsonmackay No. 01:04:13.35 iandawsonmackay Because they always say that only to if you can't teach it to a five year old, you don't really understand it yourself. And I think that's what content creation helps with, is it shows you this kind of, do you understand it well enough to teach it, or explain the little nuances, the skill movements and stuff. So then how do you review a training session? How do you analyze how you're improving, and what you could work on, et cetera, but still be kind to yourself? 01:04:40.98 iandawsonmackay is it Are you just looking at it as like, I got five out of 10 this week, I'll go for six out of 10. How do you make it like a challenge, but not too much of a challenge that you beat yourself up? 01:04:52.83 iandawsonmackay Because I think there's a fine line between the two. 01:04:53.13 Rosie Yeah. Well, I think the way, like you don't judge your training sessions by how many rounds you won or not. I could win a training set, I could win a round, but with poor jiu-jitsu, maybe I scored an advantage early on and I stalled the rest of the time just because I wanted to win so badly. That didn't benefit me or the other person. Maybe, maybe, maybe that benefited me if I've been really struggling to maintain positions and maybe I needed to work on control. Maybe that was a point of progress for me. 01:05:26.04 Rosie but most of the time, probably not, right? So I really judge my progress based off of um things that are patterns in my life that like maybe only me and the people close to me know are things I'm working on. So another personal example from a training session recently, I was training with Louisa Montero, okay? If you don't know who she is, 01:05:51.63 Rosie You've been living under a rock. She's a multiple time world champion. Absolutely incredible athlete. Love her. 01:05:57.62 iandawsonmackay Badass. 01:05:57.70 Rosie She is. And, um, I was, I was rolling with her and it is a tough round. I'm tired. It's a comp class. And at the very end of the round, after she has scored, I don't know how many points on me, she has, she's winning, right? 01:06:15.26 Rosie I closed my guard on her. And in my head, I'm like, oh my God, I closed my guard. I'm, you know, like, I'm not getting submitted this round. I might have a chance. And then she looks at me in the round and she goes, Rose, you're losing. Basically, don't be satisfied with this. 01:06:33.61 Rosie attack you know and so then that kind of got me attacking and in the locker room after that session she I was asking her a little bit about techniques and and private lessons and we started talking a bit and she said you know Rose like yes techniques are important but basically your mindset is too and if you are satisfied with not getting submitted that's not a winning mindset or a winning round. So I know in my head when I'm going with someone who outskills me, I need to work on my mindset in that round. So no matter if I win or lose the round, what my mindset is in that round is what I'm working on. Am I constantly trying to impose my game? Am I trying to submit or score on her from my close guard? That's how I'm gonna judge my success or failure in that round. Not necessarily did I win that round. um Does that make sense? 01:07:25.59 iandawsonmackay Definitely. I think I've found a better way of going into jujitsu, I think, because every time you've said something, I've been like... fireworks in the back of my head going, see, that's how you should be thinking about it. That's how you should be training. And I know you're helping so many people with this. And it generally feels like 10 minutes. But I know you've got another meeting coming up soon. But I would love to have you on again. And we'll talk about like the techniques dive to really go into some of these sort of avenues. I'm trying not to go down rabbit holes and just focus on myself. But what would you say to somebody just now who is starting jiu-jitsu? 01:08:02.58 iandawsonmackay and they come to you in six months or three months, three weeks, whatever it is, what would you want to see them doing? As coming out of Jiu-Jitsu to know they're getting the best from Jiu-Jitsu and not following the Gordon Ryan, ah but I better say what I was going to say, mentality, that we're doing Jiu-Jitsu for the the right reasons. 01:08:25.62 Rosie Yeah, well, I mean right reasons right like that's so subjective So I think that that's a major point is know why you are doing jujitsu It doesn't have to be the same reason as anyone else is jujitsu fun for you. Is it adding to your life? Is it contributing to your life? Is it helping you? 01:08:42.49 Rosie If it ever feels like a pressure or a, you know, a suck from your life and it's not your livelihood, even if it is your livelihood, let's take a look at the mindset around that to make sure that we're practicing it in a way that truly is helpful in uplifting us. um There's a lot of different reasons people train Jiu-Jitsu and your reason doesn't need to be what anyone else's is. 01:09:05.78 iandawsonmackay hello I love your mentality. 01:09:09.74 iandawsonmackay I can i understand why you're so successful as a coach. do you Are you taking on new clients currently? how How can people get in touch if they're interested in the but the coaching? 01:09:19.81 iandawsonmackay or you know Are you going to to be doing TED talks? Are you going to be putting up products? How are you are you going to evolve the RM brand of the evolving Jiu Jitsu? 01:09:28.91 Rosie Yeah. So um i I do take one-on-one clients. I am starting to move away from that. um Technically, my roster is full, but I, you know, people People cancel, you know, clients are usually with me anywhere from six months to three years. Um, so there is some sort of a rotation. So I am still taking one-on-one client calls. So if you're interested in that, there's a link in my bio on Instagram at Rosie rolls with Z at the end. Um, for a strategy call, you can always email me at Rosie rolls at gmail ah.com. If you have any questions or are interested. And I do have some very exciting ah courses coming up that I'm working on. um They are not done yet, but I'm hoping to have them finished by the end of the year. And I'm going to start rolling out more like group coaching options and self-paced courses, both for nutrition, mindset, and jujitsu. um So I'm really excited to release some of that stuff. 01:10:30.38 iandawsonmackay I love it. I can't wait to see someone because you are one of the best instruction givers. You're one of the best content creation jujitsu rolling masterpieces out there. 01:10:40.42 Rosie I 01:10:43.44 iandawsonmackay There's so much that you do that helps the sport just in improving people mentally, cognitively, physically, spiritually, emotionally. 01:10:48.90 Rosie can't help you. 01:10:53.04 iandawsonmackay And you give so much to it. But what would you want people to take from this? Is it a reminder? Is it a way you would summarise this interview? 01:11:02.17 Rosie Oh, a way I would summarize it. um Really, that action is just an expression of your core values. like The better you know yourself, you're not you're not doing these things to prove yourself or to be anyone. They're just kind of an expression of of of who you are. There's nothing really to prove. 01:11:19.99 Rosie um It's just a way to express yourself, I guess, is is that's what's helped me the most is looking at it less as a judgment of who I am and more as an expression of who I am. And if I ever don't like the artwork that I'm seeing being created, I can change it at any time. um So, you know, you're in control of what you're in control of and you can't sweat the rest. 01:11:44.14 iandawsonmackay Perfect. Well, let's stop just a bit.